Mastering Mindset Shifts: Overcoming Mental Barriers & Building Resilience with Life Coach Anne Levine

How do high achievers sustain success while maintaining balance and well-being? In this episode of HealthSpan Digest, life coach Anne Levine shares powerful insights on building resilience, overcoming mental roadblocks, and creating change that actually sticks.

Anne, founder of Annex Life Coaching, helps professionals bridge the gap between ambition and personal fulfillment. We dive deep into:

✅ Lessons from endurance sports—How ultra-marathons & triathlons build mental strength

✅ Breaking negative thought patterns—How to reframe setbacks & develop self-compassion

✅ Sustainable habit change—The key to making small improvements that compound over time

✅ The power of mindfulness & mindset work—How to work with your thoughts instead of against them

✅ One simple action you can take today to improve your emotional well-being and overall healthspan

If you’ve ever struggled with motivation, self-discipline, or maintaining consistency, this episode is packed with insights to help you break through mental barriers and take action.

🎧 Listen now and start creating meaningful change in your life!

💡 Join the Conversation: What’s one small mindset shift that helped you improve your health or performance? Share your thoughts in a review or tag me on social!

📌 Connect with Anne Levine:
👉 Website: https://annexlifecoaching.com/
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annexlifecoaching/

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Transcript

Welcome to another episode of HealthSpan Digest. I am your host, Aaron Shaw from HealthSpan Physio Coaching, and I am very excited today to have a special guest, Anne Levine from Annex Life Coaching. I'll give you a little headline of what she does here.

Anne focuses on helping high achieving individuals balance ambition with wellbeing, creating change that sticks. And I'll give everybody a little bit of a behind the scenes here. and I do know each other, uh, outside of the podcast world in the real world. And we have a lot of things in common, not the least of which is coaching. Um, so we're going to dig into that, but to start with, I'm going to throw a question at you that we didn't really totally prepare for, but I want to hear about your.

Anne (00:31)

Thank

Aaron Shaw (00:46)

athletic endurance experience. You have done some ambitious endurance events. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Anne (00:58)

Yeah, Aaron thank you for asking. I'm honestly flattered that you asked. It's not something that, yeah, I'm happy to talk about that. I made a goal years ago. Maybe I was in my late 20s. I said I want to do a triathlon. And then all of a sudden I was doing triathlons and I grew up being very active. I was a soccer player, you know, into college and

Aaron Shaw (01:02)

Alright.

Anne (01:27)

active. And soccer was the only thing I was good at. I was so good. Man, I was good. But everything else, just fine, you know, not great. And went into triathlon and I loved it. And what I loved about it is I didn't have to be good at anything. That it was fun. I could show up. I could hang with people that were deeply competitive, serious about the sport. And we both could have a good time.

I loved it. And the sport of triathlon, what your listeners probably know, but might not, there's this one section called transition where you're coming, it's like coming back to your home room, swapping everything out and then going back out to the next sport. So it's swim, bike, run. That was what I was best at. I mean, I could smoke anybody in transition. so, but that's what I learned.

in triathlon was learning to do things that I didn't think I could do. Swimming is not something that is a comfortable thing. I didn't really learn how to swim like grown-up style until 2001. Like, I mean, I could swim underwater, but so that's how it started. And I was a triathlon coach for a while and then shifted into trail running, which is very natural. I live in the mountains and

love hiking and love walking. For those of you that don't know, trail running long distances involves a lot of walking. So it's a perfect sport for me. So I got into trail running and it just seemed like ultra marathons were the place to go.

and the reason why is the mental challenge of sticking with something that is uncomfortable and that I am not winning, that I'm having fun, that I'm coming up against myself and having to deal with what is, what my shortcomings are.

what the myths are about myself. And it's just, awesome. It's been so much fun. So I've done a handful, very small handful, three ultra marathons and love it. And now I'm trying to find ways as I get into my more senior years of adulthood of how to take care of my body and continue doing things that bring me that challenge.

Aaron Shaw (03:45)

So you must have during these ultras a lot of time to stick in your head and solve problems or probably create problems, solve them, create another one, solve them. Like how long are these ultras overall on average? Well, let's just say, yeah.

Anne (03:50)

Wow. Yeah.

Oh, well, if you're fast, they're a lot shorter. Mine are quite long.

you know, I think fast people is sort of like Iron Man's. think fast people do them in, I don't know, nine hours. I don't know mine were like 16 right up against the time cutoff. So for the Ultras, 50 miles, you know, I don't know my exact time, but you know, we're in the double digits of hours, not right up against the cutoff times, but maybe 14, 15 hours.

longer than one should be walking in the woods, you know, but it's so fun.

Aaron Shaw (04:26)

on your feet.

That is ultra. Are there lessons that you take away from that? you come into that? I'm going to tie this into life coaching, of course, but it seems like there's also, as my listeners would know, I'm an endurance athlete. anywhere near that, but still, being athletic overall certainly has life lessons with personal business. You're our internal dialogue.

Anne (04:38)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (05:00)

What things can you take away from the ultra events or even just like any sort of endurance sport, let's say that maybe ties into some of the tools that you use with your clients.

Anne (05:06)

Yeah.

Well, Aaron, you are an incredible athlete. And when we talked the other day catching up, you said something about your discipline. And I thought, you've got that. I don't have that. I don't have that at all. But I don't have that. So I want to just make sure you give yourself kudos of being an incredible endurance athlete. you have a...

Aaron Shaw (05:14)

where to start.

Anne (05:39)

Yeah, something great. So mine's just different. Mine is like, if this very undisciplined, very lazy by nature, you know, comfort seeking person can do it, you can too. So I just want to say that. And so the skills, the things that I've learned that impact my life personally, and the people that I work with is how to...

how to work through and be present for the thoughts that are driving you crazy and things that are telling you how, you know, it could be I'm on the trail and because I'm slow, like, there's no people around. I'm just seeing little flickering tags in the woods telling me which way to go. And my mind can tell me that I'm lost, that the race is over, everybody's packed up and gone home. You know, all kinds of crazy thoughts and...

The practice has been bringing myself back to, a second, my feet are here. Sort of reality checking, sort of seeing through these cognitive distortions. okay, I'm on the path, there's little flags. Keep going. And then here's the trick. And then it happens right again. Some other thought. I'm the worst, I'm.

the da da da da, I'm not gonna, whatever the thought is. And so it's that, it's sort of two parts. One is the getting back up on the horse thing with your thoughts. And so just coming right back to center, And then the other thing is to give myself a,

Someday I'll come up with the right metaphor, but like a wide berth. instead of like I'm always walking on a high wire or a thin like a balance beam. No, Let's be a little nicer. Yeah. And a wide path that is full of errors and feeling stupid and

Aaron Shaw (07:25)

That's exhausting. That's scary. Yeah.

Anne (07:35)

you know, feeling incredible, you know, all of those things, but to just give myself a little bit of kindness and not make the stakes so high.

Aaron Shaw (07:45)

Yeah, I think that concept of falling off the horse and getting back on, especially when there's like a long, event, as we're talking about here, like ultras, but it turns out life is a long event if you play it right. So there's also a lot of like falling off the horse, getting back on, off the horse and getting back on. think that what the challenge is for us is to remember that that is the game.

Anne (07:54)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (08:13)

in and of itself, even though we think like, it's the event or it's the, you know, it's the, it's the trail run or it's the, me, I think it's the bike race or it's whatever it is. It's like, you know, point A to point B, but there's so many, you know, it's not a straight line. It's not clean. It's not pretty. It's clumsy and awkward looking at times or something like that, but that is the event. And to try to, even though, you know, we, and I both coach can coach to that, but also we wake up in the morning and we look in our own mirrors and be like, okay.

Anne (08:16)

Yeah.

Uh-uh.

I'm a croaky.

Aaron Shaw (08:42)

I have to take some of my own medicine here, yeah,

I think that is a good lesson for all humans, including those of us who try to help other humans. Tell me a little bit about your practice. Tell me a little bit about who your ideal client would be and what they come to you for. What are they looking for? What challenges do they have?

Anne (08:52)

Yeah.

Okay.

The people I work with, they are typically people that are high achieving. And I don't mean high achieving like type A's, although they're there. But high achieving in that they've got an area of their life that they are feeling pretty good about and that they've had some success. It could be parenthood, it could be...

they're a CEO, could be athletic, know, some area that they have succeeded in and they're feeling deeply frustrated that that success is not transferring over to these other areas. So how I came into this, you know, I have a master's degree in counseling psychology. I'm a credentialed coach through ICF, but how I really came to it was I have been in recovery for 30 some odd years.

I've seen people come in and they're crushing it. they've had a sober life, their life is incredible. But then you like turn your head just a tiny bit and things are a wreck. And it's so frustrating when you think, well, I'm doing fine in this one area. Why is that not translating? You know, why? So it's about making the change that sticks and it's actually a little about the thing. People want the thing. They want their lives in order. They want

greater self-esteem and they want to achieve things, but it's about the process of change. So it's an inside out and outside in. Like you got to make the change. I like it's important to me because I'm not a therapist anymore. It's important to me that we get results. And so

we're being real clear about what our agenda is, what our objective is. So that's something I want to be clear on. But it's for the sake of what? Why am I doing this? Is this actually the thing that's important? And so getting to a place of clarity and authenticity about what it is you really want and then making the changes inside as you're making the changes outside. So wide range of people, you know, from

I would say mid 20 year old males to 60 year old real estate brokers that are having great success. So it's a wide range and it's people that want to figure out how to make change stick. It's so frustrating. Have you experienced that where you're like, what's the deal?

Aaron Shaw (11:35)

Yes, for sure. I was

hoping you're going to say, here's the solution, do this and you're all good. I'll take what I can get. I think we can all relate. You have to stay focused on something and we push through and maybe achieve some level of success. I guess the question would be for some of the clients that come to you, do you feel like people have a sense of

Anne (11:40)

yeah, I'll give you a little bit.

Aaron Shaw (12:04)

conflict, like there's a problem that they keep coming up against, or is it on paper, I should be super happy and content and fulfilled right now, but I'm feeling a little bit empty and like, what am I doing? You know, because I think they're two different things. The sensation may be, you know, uncomfortable, but they are a little bit unique.

Anne (12:24)

Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's always an itchy, scratchy part. Now it may be life is good on paper, but I'm not happy. Or it could be...

My office is a mess and I haven't paid my taxes in three years and I'm successful, but this is crazy. You know, my business is thriving, but I am insane. So it's actually, I think what's at the heart of it is this itchy scratchiness. And sometimes people know it and sometimes people don't. And here's the thing is that sometimes the solution isn't directly related to the problem. And I think that's where healthspan.

Aaron Shaw (12:50)

Mm-hmm.

Anne (13:08)

you know, your area and this idea of whole personhood where that comes in because one little tweak in this area can have profound effects in this other area. And so that really speaks to the person who's coming in and sort of like, yeah, my life is perfect, but I'm not happy. I don't have anything to fix. Well, let's take a look.

Let's take a look and see what's under the hood, baby. You know, let's see what's happening.

Aaron Shaw (13:37)

Right.

So you find yourself working with some pretty deep emotions, I would imagine. So it's both emotional and I suppose I want to say like tactical or skill set based. do you find that some, albeit high achieving successful people have probably like super awesome tools in one thing, but maybe they're missing like

Anne (13:47)

Yeah.

down.

Aaron Shaw (14:06)

If you had these other tools in your toolbox, this could do something like, what do you find that, is there a common thread that one or two things that people are, your clients may be missing?

Anne (14:10)

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Well, first of all, hammers don't do everything, Like forcefulness. Right. I've tried. It doesn't work. So, but I think if we stripped it all away, yes, there are deep emotions, but working with your thoughts. I mean, that's not cool. No one's going to hire me to work with their thoughts. Like,

Aaron Shaw (14:23)

Everything's not a nail.

Hmm.

Anne (14:43)

But change

their life, absolutely. Enjoy their life more. But it really is about working with what is happening in reality and what's happening cognitively and what your engagement is with that dissonance or alignment. so...

I think a lot of it has to do with mindfulness, which is a word that I'm so happy it's everybody's talking about mindfulness now. But I'm talking about something really specific about working with your thoughts and how to use that to your benefit and actually the benefit of all like everybody you're encountering in your life. and deep emotional stuff. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (15:26)

Give me an example of somebody who's like, you

have a case of reframing.

Anne (15:30)

Well,

yeah, yeah, sure. So, well, I'm going to go back to say somebody that's successful that is, I don't know, has anxiety or, you know, maybe clinical anxiety and they're seeing somebody for that. I did want to touch on what you said about deep emotional stuff. Coaching is not therapy. so coaching can support therapy in a beautiful way, but it is definitely not a replacement.

But let's say you've got anxiety and...

Maybe you've addressed it before, but it's still like a bugaboo in your life. Like, okay, so what do we do with that? There's a lot of cognitive distortion that goes into anxiety and thoughts. And so there's a couple of things. One is we need to look at the process of thought and then the sort of response and action that comes afterwards. So just simple Google cognitive behavioral change that you're going to get this. It's an incredible process that actually works. So that's some of it. Identifying

sort of the stimulus and then what's happening and then introducing a new narrative, a new way to do that. So I'll come up with an example in just a sec. And so that's part of it. But another part is having some compassion towards yourself through that process because you're successful, right? Your business is fine. Your marriage is great. You've got plenty of savings. But every time you get anxious,

You are just so frustrated with yourself. So that's where I mean just like do it do it with me put your hands on your chest for a second. my gosh. Just a little bit of kindness not in a woo-woo way. I mean we can go woo-woo but just kindness towards yourself that

you're a human being that's having this thing and you are not defined by this problem. It's just part of it. It's just like the weather just is comes and it goes. So

Aaron Shaw (17:31)

There

are two points to that, one you just said, it just is. think that's a, I like reading about stoicism. so I think that sometimes things just are the way they are. You can hate a situation, you can love a situation and the situation doesn't have feelings about what your feelings are. And so I think it just, it's raining out. You can love it, you can hate it. Well, it doesn't matter. It's raining out. just is. And also with...

Anne (17:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (17:58)

kind of cutting ourselves some slack. can, it's definitely easy to see how people who are very successful in certain areas of life, that if that is, you know, it's human nature to pursue things that we're really good at. And so, you you keep doing the things you're good at, you get this positive reinforcement, it's really good. You know, your, I want say your ego or self-esteem starts to kind of build up and then you pivot off of that line and realize like, wow, wait a minute. I don't want to do this other thing. Cause I kind of suck at this.

Anne (18:20)

yeah.

Aaron Shaw (18:28)

And yet some of those other things are, are made perhaps need some attention and maybe can help. Maybe that's kind of like the noise in the background or the anxiety or stress in the background. But, when I talked to some of my clients, I just, I say, have some humility and be a little humble. Sometimes they realize like, you can be like kick butt, you know, in this one thing, you know, when you're in the office, you are like the rock star, you do all this stuff and you maybe get home and realize like.

Anne (18:44)

Mmm, yeah, yeah.

and

Aaron Shaw (18:57)

I can't deal with my home life right now. I, I'm just like, got to like, it's an A plus here and like a D plus over here. Just be like, yeah, room for improvement, growth opportunities exist. Right. so yeah, that's, that's a interesting point with that.

Anne (19:02)

Yeah, yeah, needs improvement.

So yeah, I never thought of this, the doing things you're not good at, right? And the humility that comes with that and the practice of that.

I never thought about that, but maybe part of my coaching is to spare people from having to do ultra marathons because that's where I learned it. So, hey, look what I've learned. Let's try to do this so that you don't have to go be in the woods for 16 hours. But yeah, it is about, because being a human is just, it's real ordinary. Like you said, the weather is just weather, being weather, not personal.

Aaron Shaw (19:29)

Right.

Anne (19:50)

So yeah, yeah, great. I'm glad you shared that.

Aaron Shaw (19:54)

Yeah, I think a little humor too, because sometimes the things that I think we all get stressed out about, and I can feel stress and anxious about stuff and I'm a I'm a journaling kind of guy, I journal every day. so sometimes I look back at stuff like in the moment, I'm like, this is kind of preoccupied with this and look back, I'm like, how ridiculous is this? Like that is what's so silly. Like who cares? I kind of forget about it. And so the more I've done that even when I'm in the heat of the moment and I literally,

Anne (20:15)

Yeah. Right. Right.

Aaron Shaw (20:22)

I'm feeling stressed or upset about something. And I'm like, this is a very real emotion, but there's a little part of my brain. can say, yeah, but in a week, like who cares? Like, I'm not even going to remember, like, remember this situation. So it does take like, you know, cognitive behavioral approach, which is like, I need to be objective of a, like, try to peel away a little bit of the emotion of this very real, you know, I'm feeling stressed. It's a very physiological response. It's a hundred percent to be accepted, but also acknowledge that.

Anne (20:27)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (20:53)

I'm going to be okay. Like this is like this is things are going to be okay.

Anne (20:54)

Yeah.

Having some, I don't know, kindness and grace towards myself.

You if I pick it, I mean, you said you reread stuff and I'm like, God, I don't want to reread anything. Like make sure it's burnt before I go. but because it's so cringy, you know, and, but I just, you know, I've tried, it's, it's been real, a long journey to, to be kind of kind to myself that that's what it was like. And like it, it is funny now, but at the time it was no joke. And,

And it's no joke when we encounter somebody in our day that's like that. So I want to share something. I used to, when I was doing triathlons and coaching, I would volunteer to help with events. People would come pick up their race packets.

Now you're a cyclist and cyclists have a little bit of a reputation for being kind of uptight. So just imagine you're nervous, you're excited. Yeah, you've been training. This is a big thing. And people would lose their minds if there was a glitch.

Aaron Shaw (21:54)

can't fathom that no understanding what you're saying right now.

Anne (22:06)

I remember being very frustrated with that and saying to somebody almost in a provocative way, wasn't very nice of me, sorry, but like, hey, this is not open heart surgery. Like this is fun. You're not in the Olympics. You're not gonna be in the Olympics. And so yes, that is true. I mean, the win for things like...

you know, these kind of sports that we do, the wind is showing up. Like, let's not forget that is the win. Even backtrack saying I want to do it's the win because that's scary. But but then to also have compassion for that guy who was being a jerk in line because he was all twisted up about his race bib or something that in that moment, that was so true. There was nothing else happening but that. And so

It was a good lesson for me to have a little more compassion for other people, but a good reminder of like, yeah, let's not take it all so seriously. Like really, what is the harm here? know, come on now. It's hard.

Aaron Shaw (23:09)

That's, it's, we,

I think we can all acknowledge that, but also realize that it is hard that it is an exercise in and of itself. And I guess that's maybe the, you know, being distracted or, you you're on the trail and you're off the trail and you're on the, or on the horse and off the horse and, and to do things or to feel a certain way. like this constant internal conversation that we could have and say, this is what I feel. And this is what I want to say, but no, that doesn't make any sense.

Anne (23:16)

Huh. Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (23:38)

It's not really productive. Like, wow, would I do that? Yes. But it would feel so good to like scream or throw something, but that's silly because I'm not a child. it's like this constant and maybe it's just me, maybe I'm divulging too much, after a while it's like, this is just the way it is. Man, like there's just like the, sort of primitive sensations versus like, that's not really productive. That's silly.

Anne (23:39)

Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah, and well, what would happen if you just sort of relaxed into it and acknowledged it for being the sort of ridiculous movie that you're watching of like, what an interesting process unfolding. Huh, this is kind of a boring movie. I've seen it once or twice, like not the best, but that just to sort of relax into it. think I always do this with my hand, like, relax into it, like get into your seat about it and just like, huh.

That's interesting. I'm curious about that. And I don't mean that like in a, have ambivalence or like apathy, but like it actually is kind of a curious process. And it's that sort of tight grip, which is the ability to have a tight grip. I think sometimes it is the ability to sort of push and get shit done in your, get stuff done in your life, which is a good thing. But we don't need that.

all the time. Like, let's put on loose comfy fat pants. it's just, oh, that feels good. You know? So, yeah.

Aaron Shaw (24:56)

Yeah, there's definitely a place to let go. And, and

I think it's, uh, again, to speak personally, like there are times when I'm super focused and think we can all really dev and decision fatigue. Sometimes we've got pushing through a project or whatever's going on in your life. And you're like, Oh, I gotta make all these decisions. And it can be empowering and it's can be really positive, but also it's like, Oh man, when, you know, then it comes time, like, what do you offer dinner? It's like, Oh my God, like, I'm to say, I don't care. And I literally mean like right now, like

Anne (25:09)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (25:25)

I don't know,

Anne (25:25)

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (25:25)

I just can't even fathom that. But it's in a cycle where it happens again and again and again. So think that's where maybe we have the opportunity to say, okay, this is part of the day or part of my particular day in this moment. This is what I'm feeling. therefore.

Anne (25:28)

Yeah.

Right.

Yes.

Aaron Shaw (25:41)

How do I frame this a little bit? Shake it off. Yeah. Let me put on my fat pants. Yes. Yeah.

Anne (25:42)

Shake it off. Yeah. Yeah, fat pants. I'm telling you, they're good.

In that instance.

It's, so you're, you know, I'm exhausted. I have all these decisions that I've been making. Like literally you could put a bowl of dog food in front of me and I'd be fine. Like I cannot, and my partner, my husband is saying, no, but what do you want? You know, let me help. Okay, that's the moment where mindfulness and sort of like a, back in your seat. Here's a human being that's trying to be kind to me. Sure, I'm tired, but.

there's another person. It could be the checkout person at the grocery store or it could be your loved one. so, okay, let's kind of put this in check in a kind and loving way, you know, and be nice to this other person because it's not all about me ever. I'm just, you know, tiny part of it. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (26:41)

Even though you're living your 24-7 as Anne, so you're

in your story whether you like it or not, so it is about you.

Anne (26:47)

Yeah, yeah.

How do you, like with your athletic endeavors, how do you manage coming up against yourself? Like what is a tool that you use or a lesson that you've learned that helps you when you're working with clients?

Aaron Shaw (27:10)

I think one of the, thing that kind of keeps me going and keeps me focused on being, you know, I feel like I'm like the, exercise guy. Like I enjoy for, you know, for anybody who's listening right now, who doesn't know my backstory of, was a competitive cyclist for a long time and I work out pretty much every day doing one thing or another at this point in my, my middle-aged life. I'm once in a while we'll get into a mountain bike race or something, but, but I still train and even

As I, as of this recording yesterday, did a challenging indoor workout, cycling workout. And it was very familiar. I've done a million of them and it was, uncomfortable and it was psychologically almost more, more challenging prepping for it than actually doing it. It's like anticipatory, like, it's going to be hard. it's going to feel.

I'm going to choose to suffer a two o'clock this afternoon. like, so the, the, um, so the preparation for it, the sort of mental fortitude and, I think you mentioned the word discipline. Uh, when we first started talking, but I think that, you know, a few things, one, I identify myself in a certain way and almost like from a third person, like, you know, Aaron Shaw is the guy that works out. Aaron Shaw is the guy that does.

Anne (28:10)

you

Aaron Shaw (28:35)

intervals on occasion. Aaron Shaw says yes to this and no to that. so I'm living within myself and I don't feel like I'm in a movie or anything, but in a sense, like who is that guy? I want, and I think, I forget who said this, but when I'm 80 years old, I want to look back on Aaron today in his mid fifties and say, good call. You know, so like that's who's judging me. Like I care less about

Anne (29:05)

That's beautiful.

Aaron Shaw (29:06)

I care less about like the neighbor judging me or the person in the grocery store judging me or anybody else really. Like the person I truly have to be the most accountable to is myself. And I don't want to let myself down in a sense. And so that in order to do that, I have to exercise discipline, which is a constant exercise. You said on the horse, off the horse. mean, this is the very real challenge, no matter, you know, the outcome of having a successful race or something or a successful business thing.

It was like, to be clear, there was a lot of time off the horse that I was trying to like climb back on the horse, but the discipline is, Discipline is figuring out what you want now versus what you want most.

And so making that decision, because what I want right now is, you know, a handful of M and M's. Do I want that now? Sure. That sounds great. Do I want that most? Well, no, because that, that is going to distract me from what I want most, which is to be 80 years old and healthy, for example. And, and so there's these, you know, the now versus most conversation is kind of what I kind of as of lately and have been like, Oh, that's a really interesting way to kind of frame.

the infinite decisions that we make every single day, both professionally managing stress, day-to-day stuff, self-care, exercise, all these healthspan pillars that we have to follow. like, yes, but this is primitive desire for right now. I want this thing. I want to sleep in late. I want to go out drinking tonight. I want to have more pizza and dessert and whatever. That's what I want. Literally, do I want that? Yeah, of course I want that. And people have said to me, it must be nice.

You're always motivated and you always want to exercise. I'm like, Oh, no, no, no, no. Let's clear this up. No, I did not want to go suffer, you know, but does it help me get what I want most? Yes. So I've got to be objective about that. So I've taken that tool from, you know, back in the day when I used to race my bike all the time, as I say, like those are tools that I've, I probably went into it a little bit because of the way I'm wired and the way I was brought up. So I kind of had this kind of.

Anne (30:53)

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (31:16)

The basics of those tools and certainly racing for well over a decade. like, kind of sharpened those tools for a long time. And I was like, now it takes effort to kind of maintain that. Those tools.

Anne (31:26)

Yeah.

I'm so glad you shared that because people probably want to hear that you are not a robot wire to be a beacon of perfectionism or like, because it can look like that to those of us that are not maybe as disciplined or I use the word structured. They're not the same word, but

But anyways, those of us that kind of are wired a little differently, it can look like it's just, I'll never be able to do what you do because you're just different than me. And it was cool as you were talking, I really, thought about, okay, yeah, I actually relate to this. It's, I think of it as for this, my two things you said, now versus the later, know, what I, yeah, most. I think of it as for the sake of what? For the sake of what?

So if my well-being is my priority and I am really that is embodied semantically in me that that is my priority I'm going to pause before eating those &Ms. Nothing wrong with it. We need to eat &Ms. They're tasty but

Aaron Shaw (32:40)

Yeah,

to be clear, was not a diss on &M's, okay? So I'm pro Yeah, right. Well, accepting sponsorship right now, so if anybody... Yeah.

Anne (32:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Nobody cancel Aaron, he loves him. Yeah, right.

But again, that's that sort of path of kindness towards yourself of like, yeah, sometimes you hit it and sometimes you don't, right. So that's the...

the most. That's the for the sake of what and then doing my future self a favor. That's my 80 year old Aaron that you just mentioned. I know on your show, I'm not going to blow this early, but I know on your show at the end you ask people like or you talk about what's the one thing you can do and I've been thinking about I bet he's going to ask me that and

Aaron Shaw (33:23)

radio.

Anne (33:25)

One of the things I thought of saying, but I'm not going to say, cause I'm to say it now, is to think about your future self. So when I'm tired and the dishes are still in the sink, I'm going to do future Anne, the morning Anne, a favor by putting, getting him taken care of. Or I'm going to go on a walk first thing in the morning cause I want to do 3pm Anne a favor cause she's pretty crusty and burnt out by the time three or four. So.

It's a same model. I like the idea of pushing it out even further to, know, okay, I'm 52, so let's think about 55, 58. You know, what a good thing to take that long range, whether it's tomorrow or three hours from now, you, or 20 years from now, 30 years from now, you.

It's like a beautiful thing from like being truly in the moment to sort of forward thinking and making the best decisions in this moment for the kind of moments you want to have later on.

Aaron Shaw (34:29)

Yeah, that's a good way to kind of sort of frame this next question, which is when you have, you have a client come to you and of course they have, suspect some acute right now, this is what's on my mind. This is why I'm seeking you out today or I've been looking recently. How do you help people appreciate the 3pm Ann and the 60 year old Ann and recognize that they, we all know that.

We're all creatures. I want that immediate, it's a very real physiological response to grabbing the &Ms right now. It is awesome for at least a few minutes. How do you help people say, let's make a decision around the &Ms, which maybe sometimes, yes, that's fine, but also acknowledge that, how do you keep the eye on the 30,000 foot view? How do you help people do that?

Anne (35:04)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

well I think we start with the 10 foot view and then the 20 foot view and then the third. definitely scaling, scaling, you know, and starting out with literally the lunchtime Anne. Lunchtime Anne needs breakfast.

So part of it is scaling and then the more comfortable you are with making decisions in this moment for future better moments, the easier it will be to imagine. Because many of us, many of the people I work with come in and...

the last thing they're thinking about is 20 years from now. my God, they can't manage today. They're not thinking about that. So part of it is learning to be truly in this moment that we have because then you learn that, this is all we've got actually.

that's kind of heavy like we could pause let our listeners take that in all we have is right now that's part of it part of it is having some compassion towards yourself that like you are gonna bumble your way there if you are so lucky to get that 10,000 foot you know get to 80 to you know that in itself is a gift so you know that's where the sort of gratitude and humility comes in

Aaron Shaw (36:12)

Yeah. Yes.

Anne (36:37)

and working with what we've got. so client is in their 60s, they've had a lifetime of sort of reckless eating and reckless living, and they want to make changes. Okay, well, this is what we've got to work with today. You are not a virgin clean vessel that's only had like grass-fed meat and you know, organic veggies. okay, so that's cool. We'll just, so.

Aaron Shaw (36:59)

Bye.

Anne (37:04)

Part of it is managing the expectations we place on ourselves and getting really aware of what matters that the making a smidge of an improvement is actually very satisfying. having, I talk about these grains of rice, my clients don't love it because they would like to have, you know, 30 pounds, they'd like like a tanker full of rice, you know.

But it is a grain of rice that we're just moving over each time. And when you feel them stack up, now granted, rice is small, so it's gonna be like, you've got 10 or 15 of these little, my gosh, look, I made a change there, I've built up some practice. And it shifts your experience in the world. It's quite profound. It's like.

People they want to quit smoking. They want to lose weight. They want to get sober. Whatever the thing is. They want to start doing something new. They're like, okay, I did it for two days and I failed. No, no, no, no. Each one is like, dude, look, a little grain of rice. It's still happening. And it's part of the process. Some of us I've seen this in recovery. You some people decide they want to stop drinking and they just get it. Boom. Other people, they start, they stop, they start, they stop.

And each one of those matters because we're learning something. so it's we're just my clients are just like gathering little, you know, grains at a time. Did I answer your question or did I just go like on a rice tangent?

Aaron Shaw (38:36)

No, well, this is all great. mean, it leads into certainly thinking about habit formation, which is one of the huge thing that's, I work with my clients and I think that we're all for better or worse. We have our habits and our routines and, you know, that sense of sort of being stuck in a rut is I think in part, least that our environment, our belief system, our routines have established, you know, you do this on this day at this time and, you know, both physically doing an activity, also

Anne (38:41)

I'll be right

Okay.

Aaron Shaw (39:06)

thinking a certain way is like, you know, I'm in this certain situation. So I sort of habitually get a little anxious or habitually. I get happy, you know, when I see certain people, whatever it is. So when you're working with your clients and people want to make a life change, like, Hey, help me change these things. And I imagine, you know, once you kind of get a sense of like, here's my routine, here's what I do. Here's my thought process. How do you help people a not just change, which I feel like we've talked about a little bit already, but it's like.

Anne (39:12)

This is it.

Aaron Shaw (39:36)

How does that, you know, collecting those grains of rice happen in a month from now and six months from like, how do you help people sustain? Cause we all know and certainly for many of the people that I work with, both in formal coaching and just sort of, you know, social settings, it's, man, January, I am going to like change everything and it's going to be amazing.

Anne (39:45)

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (40:01)

and I'm going to eat clean and exercise and hydrate and stop drinking and do all these millions of things. And it's kind of like a full court press for a couple of weeks and then the habits stop. so I think that we all, and I think to me, my perception, I'm curious if you have a different perspective on this, but the sense of coaching is sustainability, an exercise in sustainability, right? So I don't provide people with this

Anne (40:25)

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (40:30)

groundbreaking news, listeners, you want to write this down, but exercise is good for you. should exercise regularly. You should probably eat clean to like skip the fast food. Okay. So I know this is going to like, this is going to blow up. This episode is going to be amazing, but that's the secret. We all know how do we help people sustain that? What do you, how do do that?

Anne (40:34)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that is what it's all about is making change that sticks, right? And that it's not because I've wanted I'll share something personal and then I'll get to how it plays out in life and with clients. I've always wanted to be somebody that wakes up at five o'clock and does yoga and maybe has a dancer's body. Why not? Like that's not me. I don't have that. Never had it. I could.

if it was that important, but it's actually not for me. Yoga would help. So there's a couple of... One is having a reckoning. I have this sort of secret desire wish to be something that I am not at this moment and to really just clear the space and let's look at that. Do you want that? Because I bet if you do, we can make that happen. We can get you there.

But it turns out I don't really want to be a 5 a.m. yoga person. I'd rather be a 5 a.m. run person or something, you know, something else. so with clients we look at, okay, what is it that you really want? Sometimes you come in and you think you know what you want and sometimes you're right, but sometimes you're not right. And we lift the hood and it's like, this is what I want. So that's part of it.

and you know somebody comes in at the beginning of the year they want to lose weight but what they really want is some happiness some ease and some space in their life okay so inside out outside in so it's like you know mandala right

even if you don't know exactly what one is, just imagine a circle with different entry points, right? So we can pick any entry point to get in there and start doing stuff. so maybe what it is is learning.

I mean, I do this with all my clients is having greater somatic awareness. So Aaron, in this moment, what do you experience? You don't have to answer unless you want to, but like, what are you experiencing in your body right now? A lot of us walk around and we're just like a head on a stick, right? We're just nothing happening. So I I help people, okay, let's get in there. What is happening here with your bum on the seat, your feet on the floor, like so somatic awareness.

because this is where we are. Okay. And, and, okay, notice your thoughts. Okay. What's happening here? So some of it is, is bringing awareness to mind and body, um, in a very ordinary way, but it's quite profound. And then it's the sort of chip chip chipping away that that's actually how you make change stick. There's, I always say like, this isn't a, there's a new sheriff in town approach, you know, like from cartoons where there's a new sheriff. Pooh, pooh. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Aaron Shaw (43:30)

Everything changes. Yeah.

Anne (43:33)

we are, you know, we're grain of rice in it. That it's just, that is actually how you do it. And so sometimes the thing you're isn't, you know, I want to change the way that I eat. Yeah, I want to do that. But today all I did was I drink, I won the water drinking Olympics. I did great. Yahoo! You know, so.

everything matters. So again, so many different entry points, it all matters. And sometimes as simple as doing a little inventory at the end of the day of the things that you know, you could do plus minus kind of keep it simple. And sometimes like, maybe you're having a rough time and just getting in the shower that day was a lot. And other people do that all the time, right? That's normal. But

for you for that day, like let's capture that win because it matters. And then sometimes you have fancier days where you do things like that 2 p.m workout you just talked about. I don't, I'm dying to know what you actually do because it sounds terrible. Like it sounds, but you know sometimes you do fancy things, but to capture those ordinary things in those ordinary efforts, those matter and they really do stack up and that's how you make the behavior

Aaron Shaw (44:31)

I'll acknowledge it.

Anne (44:52)

or mindset change. I would say it's a lot of mindset. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (44:58)

I agree. think it's a combination of mindset and, and looking through some of your stuff on your website, I'll share all of your contact information, but you mentioned, like groups, having almost like, you know, accountability partners or other people that are, and it'll turn out that most people are actually trying to change whether they, whether they are saying it out loud, but we're all like trying to like, God, I I should do this or I should do that or whatnot. So, I'm a big fan of.

Anne (45:18)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (45:27)

habits. So my favorite book is probably Atomic Habits and making these little tiny changes and acknowledging that all of these great things and certainly people that you if you look up to people that are inspiring to you, they probably do small things consistently to the point that it seems like it'd be so boring and tedious. Yet, it gets them amazing results because they are doing the one grain of rice.

Anne (45:49)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (45:57)

All the time,

good day, bad day, slept well, didn't sleep well. It's raining out, it's sunny out. like, it doesn't matter, man. I'm just going to just keep doing that one thing. And if that one thing is like, whether that's doing a check-in, whether that's doing my, you know, 30 minutes, you know, run or yoga in the morning and just doing it or making my smoothie or saying no to whatever, it's like boring, tedious repetition. Results are massive. Results are huge. And it's, I think it's a hard.

Anne (46:16)

and

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (46:26)

That's a hard selling point sometimes where what we all assume is like, want the quick fix. just what's the, what's the riddle? Just give me the equation so I can be happy, fit, healthy, motivated, balanced across all things and sleep well. Like give me all like, so what is that? Is that coming to pill form or do I got to inject it? Like, does this work? Right. And I think that habits are, and that long-term play, like that's the, that's the challenge.

Anne (46:35)

Yeah, give me the speaker.

Yeah.

Yeah, and you know the habits are tedious, but if you are present there's Thich Nhat Hanh, I don't know if you've heard of him, but Thich Nhat Hanh, okay, that was probably my first introduction to Buddhism a long time ago and one of his books he talked about, you know, mindfulness doing the dishes or and paying attention to where I am and what I'm doing.

Aaron Shaw (47:02)

yeah.

Anne (47:17)

Um, it's not like, doesn't bring sparkle magic to tedious chores and tedious habits, but being present makes a difference while you're doing it. Cause there's not this dissonance of your head being like, this sucks. Oh, I hate this. And it's like,

hate it, love it, like you said, it's cool, whatever, but we're actually, that's just a thought. We're doing the thing. Let's do the thing. So it's like a redirect, you know, just like training a puppy. I've never had a puppy. My dogs have all come to me older, but I think when you train a puppy, you're just consistent. And sometimes you nail it. Sometimes you don't, you know, so I think it's kind of like maybe we're all puppies. So I think that's a big part of it.

is just being present with what you're doing and that your thoughts are in some ways they don't matter at all and in other ways that's all that matters. That's a stumper. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (48:16)

Yes, and true in fact. Yeah, well, because your perception is everything, right? I mean, we've

all had the same exact situation come, know, essentially the same situation pop up. And some days it's stress or some days it's like, I don't care. Some days are like, it means nothing. And I think if we can reflect on that and realize that it's the same situations. And so really like your, your emotions that are attached to it is like, like that's all coming from me. Like the same, you know,

Anne (48:24)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (48:44)

I'm going grocery shopping. Oh, I hate this. It drives me nuts. like, Oh, this is kind of nice to get out of the house. Or like, Oh, this is cool. I really want to make this, you know, dish tonight. It's like, wait a minute, I'm doing the same thing. Like, why am I pissed off one time and, and I'm fine and kind of okay about it the next time. It's like, Oh, maybe it is. Maybe it's me. Maybe it's not the grocery store. So, yeah.

Anne (48:48)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, well, let's write a new story. let's why not

if it's all make believe anyways, let's pick a different story. Yeah, I want to ask you with your clients because any kind of coaching right is about accountability. Any kind doesn't matter what. How do you see accountability really having an accountability partner? How do you see that transform people's lives besides getting the thing that they want?

What are the other things that you see that people get from learning about accountability through coaching?

Aaron Shaw (49:39)

Yes, I think that.

Couple of things with accountability. One, people have to be ready for it, engaging. Being accountable, having a coach, having an accountability partner, something like that, it doesn't mean that your partner, if you will, can do things for you. But I can't exercise for my clients. I can't take my interval session that I did the other day and give physiological credit to my coaching clients. My rates would go way up if I could do that. I could tell you. That would be great. Yeah, I'll see if I can.

Anne (50:07)

That'd be awesome.

Aaron Shaw (50:12)

find an app for that.

I think that for me, accountability is helping people reach their potential. sometimes, if not all the time, people can achieve so much more than what they even though like their wildest dreams on like health and fitness and balance and healthspan and emotional well-being. And I think that having

Again, this is like a process of like, let's define goals. You know, I mean, if you're middle-aged people like we are and say, I want to be an Olympian. It's like, well, let's kind of be realistic about some goals, but let's be ambitious. what do you know, could we all be stronger of, you know, a better metabolic system and physiologically all these other great benefits? Sure. Yeah, we all could. mean, it's almost like, you know, the, is no end.

Anne (50:54)

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (51:08)

game or you can't really achieve perfection. no such thing. So accountability comes in to help people achieve. First of all, maybe help people define what are we shooting for here, even in as clear terms as possible. I love, and you can appreciate this from an artistic perspective, which I would love to dig into a little bit, is I always say, paint a

vibrant, colorful picture in your mind on what success looks like. Not like, want to lose 10 pounds. like, okay, objective. Like that's either like did it or not. But what does that truly look like? Like define the day when you wake up and say, holy shit, I did the thing that I talked about a year ago. Like, like is the sun up? What are you wearing? What are you doing? What does it feel like? Who are you engaging with? What's your mood? What are you eating? And

Anne (51:44)

Hmm.

Aaron Shaw (52:07)

to the more I find the more the people can kind of detail that, like really get a visual in it. It's tough for a lot of stuff, you know, like I just want to be healthy. Yeah, we all do. What does that mean to you? Like I don't, but then once you, once you can help people clearly define that and say like, yeah, this is ambitious, but reasonable doable within this timeframe. I think that's where our coaching hats come in. Like let's piece this out.

Let me make this in bite-sized pieces and then we can work on being accountable for this piece and then this piece and then the next grain of rice and the next grain. And I think that when people, my clients start to recognize that it's easier to think about, you know, that one grain of rice is success. It's not the perfect day that I'm hoping for, you know, in a year from now when I'm at my

Anne (52:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Thank

Aaron Shaw (53:06)

my weight, my emotions, my sleep, all these things are dialed in. It's like, no, like we've, we've, we've piece milled this out. And so accountability is like, did you get your grain of rice today? Did you do that one, one little thing which we're going to come to, but like that is that's the value of accountability. think, but it takes, you know, I can, I can remind people. And this is human nature. You know, there's the, we don't bat a thousand, you know, people try people, you know, have clients that come in, this is what I want, break it all down.

Anne (53:16)

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (53:37)

few months, they kind of just like fade away and like, just not, not ready yet. Maybe it's like sobriety. Like some people are like, yep, here it is. And other people's like exploring it maybe more than like doing it.

Anne (53:39)

Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah, think, yeah, I think it all matters. Like the people, we've all been there where we're like, you know, now we're going to do this thing and you're the one that fades away, you know, whatever the thing and that that that still matters. That is still some imprint of change.

Aaron Shaw (53:51)

That's my thought on accountability.

Anne (54:14)

It didn't, you know, you didn't sustain it, which is fine. That's, you know, not going to get points taken off, but it's an imprint and every imprint matters. and as you were speaking, I was thinking about the different kinds of accountability and, you know, some people want you to do it for them and we can't do that. I can't do it for anybody. but knowing

I think this is helpful for people to know, knowing what kind of accountability is helpful. Some people like the sort of kick in the pants approach, you know, and some people really need more of a gentle kind of coaxing approach and it doesn't work for everybody and.

I don't work for everybody. you have to find, first of all, it's not like magic solution potion to find change, to make change, but you do have to have the right approach that's going to work for you, the right fit. I mean, there's a seat for everybody. So making sure that you find the right type of help is helpful because accountability across the board helps, but you got to find the right way for you.

Aaron Shaw (55:29)

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the, there are so many trainers and coaches and humans and there's no one size fits all. so the finesse is certainly trying to find the right. person or your group or your system for now, because they even that can, can change and will change and maybe it should change, you know, as, as you evolve.

Anne (55:46)

Yeah, for now.

the

Aaron Shaw (55:55)

Well, this is fascinating. I feel like we could, this could be a four hour podcast and it, and we'll we'll do this again and Hey, it's, it's all about. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We'll see. We'll give this to the calm app and see if they'll put this in bedtime stories. but as you alluded to earlier on, one thing that's very important to me with my, with this podcast and my coaching message is.

Anne (55:58)

Put everybody to bed for hours. We'll work on sleep. We'll be one of those sleep podcasts. We talk people to sleep.

Aaron Shaw (56:25)

Healthspan. So in healthspan, we talk about what I think are like the five main pillars of healthspan, which are exercise, nutrition, sleep, emotional wellbeing, and preventative care. And if these five pillars were given attention with, you know, yeah, attention and being deliberate about addressing those for our personal health, the result would be a life well lived.

probably extending your longevity and certainly extending your healthspan, which is that time within our lifespan that we are healthy and active and vibrant. So with that in mind, in your experience, what is one thing that you would share with our listeners that you think could help them improve their healthspan? What's one thing they can do today? What is that one grain of rice that you feel like is actionable?

Anne (57:18)

I think it kind of hits on the last two pillars, emotional well-being and preventative care. Okay, so I'm gonna preface this. Preventative care research has shown that relationships can help us live longer, connections to others. makes a difference. Physical touch makes a difference. So I'm those last two. Here's my one little tip of the day, which is...

Aaron Shaw (57:24)

Preventative care.

Anne (57:46)

It's a term, it's called Maitri. It's a Sanskrit word and it means kindness towards oneself and others. And so my one tip of the day is to make somebody else's day. So not a grand gesture. You don't have to buy the guy at the checkout line a car. That's a cool thing to do, but just make somebody's day. Maybe.

You remember once that somebody had said something about their dog and so ask them about their dog or whatever the thing is, but make somebody's day and bring some kindness towards the world. will make a difference. it's, yeah, make somebody's day. Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (58:29)

forward. That's great.

I there's research that shows that doing something like that, even though we think of it as like giving to somebody else, actually the person who's giving has a, has a, at least if not a more positive response to doing something nice for somebody else, even if it's anonymous. So there's, is, sort of like it's, it's interesting how like that these, you know, the, in a sense like the trick to happiness is actually helping what you'd make

Anne (58:47)

Yes.

Aaron Shaw (58:57)

look like I'm gonna help you be happier. I want you to be happier. And what's really happening is like, I'm actually selfish, because I'm making myself happier, just trying to make you happier, forgiving. So it's like, super win win.

Anne (58:59)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't tell my friends this, but chances are if they're getting a phone call from me saying, Hey, how you doing? It's I'm trying to get out of myself just to say hello. Like just get out of and it doesn't have to be big. Goodness gracious. could be one time somebody gave me a cup of ice at a fast food restaurant and just let me have the ice. And I started crying because it was like, thank you for not being a jerk. You know, like

Aaron Shaw (59:35)

Yes.

Anne (59:38)

It can be tiny. It was good ice.

Aaron Shaw (59:38)

Yeah. mean, sometimes depending on what's going on in the world, these small things are very impactful. So don't underestimate that. Well, Anne Levine of Annex Life Coaching. am super stoked with our conversation I will have many more conversations like this because it's super...

Anne (59:47)

Yeah.

Aaron Shaw (59:58)

selfish for me because I love these. I love what you have to say and these conversations are interesting. Appreciate your time.

Anne (1:00:00)

you

Yeah, thank you, Aaron. It's a delight. think you're fabulous. And yeah, love talking to you. It's really fun. Thanks.

Aaron Shaw (1:00:10)

we'll talk again. All right,

take care.